We wanted to interview in a serious way - and avoiding clichés - a political figure with a cumbersome military past. We are talking about General Antonio Pappalardo, the leader of the Orange Vests. In recent months, not always with a visibility corresponding to the number of people who took to the streets, he has toured the Peninsula shouting messages that are sometimes easily shared, sometimes decidedly "original". However, the opinions (positive or negative) always belong to the reader, not to the interviewers.
(Rossi) Chelsea fan?
Yes, together with Palermo - the city where I was born - and Juventus.
When I was playing football I was champion of Italy in the junior category. I was considered the best right half of Sicily. Of course, a few years have passed ...
(Rossi) At almost 74 he is not at the first political experience but he is certainly facing a demanding challenge. What is the first impression?
That the accounts always come back. In 2000 when I was president of the Cocer Carabinieri I realized that Italy was sinking. I criticized the D'Alema government and in response they made me go for a coup, even showing pictures of tanks on television! I was just a trade unionist and the military prosecutor of the Republic gave me reason.
Then I said a great truth: the parties were killing the country, subdividing the institutions, including the Carabinieri weapon.
I am back in vogue because - as a policeman who likes to ask questions - I raised questions.
In 2019 Mr. Conte launches the Green New Deal: a desire to appecononate to large international lobbies that want to subdue various States. In January 2020 an emergency is launched when there will be no cases until the end of February.
Where's the Pandemic? In 2004 there were millions of Avian victims ... 286 dead. In 2009 the Swine arrived and reported millions of victims: 15.000 dead. Meanwhile, China is continuing its march at full strength, the other states are getting into debt and accumulating millions of vaccines in the freezers.
This until Covid ... A pandemic? Reading the data it turns out that out of 35.000 deaths only very few died exclusively from Coronavirus! The others, mostly in their eighties, had conditions like diabetes or ills like cancer.
Pandemic, in my opinion, is when they die from infants to the elderly. There is something wrong. And where did the deaths occur? Between Bergamo and Brescia. In the other provinces they are in line with the other years.
Conte is a fool? An incapable? In my opinion, he obeys directives that come from above. I was chief of staff of the General Command of the Weapon and I know how "phenomena" are governed ...
Why were autopsies not done immediately? !!! When they were finally carried out, it was discovered that one did not die of interstitial pneumonia but of thrombosis. So people should have been treated differently. Half of the people died from incorrect therapies such as intubation. Someone will have to answer for the 35.000 dead!
At one time there were two categories of patients: the sick and the healthy. The former had symptoms, the latter had none. Today we also have the category of "asymptomatic". The result is total control of the population on the wave of fear.
I am a carabiniere, and yet I have never seen so much public force used: drones, helicopters, patrols ... And to find who? Delinquents, mobsters, Camorra members? Not to check on fellow citizens who brought the dog to pee! Law enforcement officers were once very popular with Italians. Conte managed to ruin this feeling.
In the holiday places today there is no longer anyone. They have transformed the country into a "place of plague". Who wants to come more to Italy? It will take years to regain trust. How will businesses like hotels, bars or restaurants go on in the meantime? !!!
(Rossi) Do you think that the current government can have ambiguous relations with some country that wants to penalize Italy?
With power lobbies, not individual countries. We hear of many conditioning in place and there is a general fall asleep.
What did the Orange Vest Movement do?
In 33 squares - despite many intimations - we gathered 50.000 people. People thanked them for "taking their feet off the strains".
The press attacked me with the most false accusations: "removed from the weapon with dishonor" or "convictions for defamation" ...
Why this fury and so many lies? For a political project that tries to make people open their eyes?
The method is very reminiscent of the Soviet one: before physically eliminating the opponents he spoke badly to discredit them.
(Rossi) What is the political recipe?
Do you want democracy? Eliminate monolithic parties in which there is only one who commands. We have created a federation of popular spontaneous movements: no longer a single subject but people who know the area and its problems.
(Rossi) Compared to French counterparts, the Yellow Vests?
They have a much broader political view. In a meeting a few months ago we made an observation: the tripartite division of state powers dates back to the French Revolution. Today, to be elected, people make promises that are almost never kept: "I will remove the excise duties" and they will not take them away, "we will hold a referendum on the Euro" and they will not, "I will never go to the PD" and yes bring together ...
So a Fourth Power is needed! An organism elected by the people with subjects outside of politics that already after a year intervenes against those who do not fulfill their promises. We need a new constitutional body, a People's Tribunate.
(Rossi) Are you not afraid that, in an Italy that always thinks in the short term, having to answer someone after just one year only makes electoral decisions? There are commitments that often require time spans of 5,10 or 15 years.
We cannot go on like this. With what happens today, after 5 years I died. Immediate action is needed. The body must be of broad guarantee and authority and will swear in the hands of the people, not the head of state.
They pulled out the "general states". In France they were used during times of crisis to make decisions for "states" (clergy, aristocracy and people, ed.). Clergy and Aristocracy always agreed and the French people were regularly irrelevant.
President Conte should pay more attention to certain parallels, we know how it ended then. We don't want Conte to end Louis XVI. Rather worry about restarting the economy! According to Confindustria hundreds of thousands of businesses will close. GDP will fall, people will lose their jobs and go hungry.
(Rossi) Will the government stand by?
We know what the plans are: Conte will implement the Green New Deal and those that adopt it in 2030 will receive funding. But a hundred will eat while 10.000 will have nothing.
It would be enough to copy Roosevelt or Schacht (in the photo, the one on the left). Like the second, government-guaranteed bonds could be realized. With that virtual currency the German economy exploded and from 9 million unemployed it went to one! Then came Hitler's reckless one and sent Schacht's work to hell, who resigned in 1939 ... His model, however, was a winner, why not try it again?
(Cucco) What do you think of the countries that have not made the lockdown?
In Switzerland, Malta, Tunisia people are quietly sitting in bars without a mask. In Italy, except in the provinces of Bergamo and Brescia, deaths have been in line with other years.
Before the Euro we were the fourth industrial power. Wasn't it enough to kill our economy? Does anyone want us totally dead?
(Cucco) How do you see the opposition parties?
What opposition? I don't see any opposition. If at the beginning of the crisis I had been a representative of an opposition party, I would not have made Conte sleep for at least two months. Instead, he worked on loose bridle!
There seems to be a criminal plan to kill Italy. On the other hand, let's face it, looking at each other, the investigation published in L'Espresso reports that the 'Ndrangheta is the only organization that finances businesses in the north, in Lombardy in particular. We are handing over the country to criminal organizations: to the 'Ndrangheta, the Mafia, the Camorra, the Nigerian Mafia, the Turkish Mafia, the Russian Mafia ...
(Cucco) He has a long career in the weapon behind him. Is crime infiltrating now or is it already hopelessly in the structure of the state to the point of becoming invisible and unassailable? So are the "small fish" to end up in the newspapers?
I have in my ears the words of the prosecutor of the Republic of Catanzaro, Gratteri, who after having arrested hundreds of gangsters colluded with politicians, on January 25, 2018, said: "criminals no longer just give votes or money, they impose their men. rebel! "
At the time of the Moro kidnapping, he did not deal with the Red Brigades. It was done, however, when Riina organized attacks.
(Cucco) Why does the state agree to deal with the Mafia?
It has happened since 1943. With the landing of the Americans, the Mafia became a privileged interlocutor of the CIA. Consequently others followed - and follow - the shameful example. The phenomenon is still very current. I recently went to a square near Palermo. At the rally there were few people. A guy approached me who said: “Few people, what a pity ... If he had gone to friends of friends - as others do! - today would have been full. "
The situation is serious. We deal with chicken thieves but certain characters never make names and surnames. Why don't the police and the judiciary investigate?
(Cucco) Why were all those who had the courage to do so killed? And "behind"? !!!
It's true. The great servants of the state who tried it are dead: Dalla Chiesa, Falcone, Borsellino ...
I am the leader of a political movement and I want clarity everywhere. I come from a very strict world on this point: if a candidate - together with his family - is not perfect, we will not enlist him! Let's not turn our heads to the other side.
(Cucco) Earlier he spoke of a "Fourth Power" to be constitutionalized. Why not let information (finally) free and independent represent it?
He touched on an important topic. If we didn't have a press enslaved to power it could do it.
In the United States, the Washington Post even dropped a president. Overseas the press was born to inform but also to criticize and censor the powerful, not the weak.
(Cucco) We have twice the number of law enforcement agencies in countries like England. In light of the results, will we have to make the system more efficient?
He is right. We have 7 police forces. We make chickens laugh. With poor prefects who have to coordinate them ... stuff to go crazy. It would take two (to control each other) with general tasks that divide the territory. The municipal police should disappear: in the hands of the Mayors it is absolutely useless.
Most of all, the agents must be respected. If a marshal investigates, a public prosecutor who says "that's my friend, leave it alone ..." or, in case of dislike, "I'll fix that ...".
We will clearly distinguish the activity of the judicial police from prosecutors. Cops and carabinieri to whom he is being told are no longer to be heard "he won't move if I don't tell him". PMs must no longer be GOD; in addition, after a few years in a place (and no more decades), like the carabinieri, they have to change air.
Law enforcement, like the armed forces, must return to be respected. At one time, lawyers also took off their hats in front of a uniform because it represented the state. Today it doesn't happen.
Photo: Online Defense / Presidency of the Council of Ministers / Bundesarchiv / web
