What comes to mind in Italy when we talk about India? Probably many stereotypical images, especially if you have never been there: poverty, overpopulation, spirituality, caste. Some will also remember the case of the two marines... However, that country is - and will increasingly be - something else: an economic and industrial power, a leading geopolitical player, and a growing military force.
In Italy, we often struggle to look beyond our immediate horizon. Our renewed bond with China is an example of this: we smilingly rewrite agreements without fully understanding the long-term implications, with a "countdown" echoing among hard-working friends and allies in the distance...
When I visited India over 30 years ago, I remember meeting an Italian journalist in Bangalore, sent to report on a new special development area. At the time, Bangalore was a quiet city of four million. Today, with over twelve million inhabitants, it is India's "Silicon Valley". I remember the amazement of seeing it again after 15 years: the dusty roads had transformed into highways and the horizon was dotted with glittering skyscrapers bearing the signs of high-tech giants. While India continued to grow, progress in Italy followed a "different" path.
Today, as global (and geopolitical) temperatures reach new records, many of our allies have shifted their gaze from Beijing to New Delhi. Is it a sign of foresight, democratic affinity or simple "Western wisdom"?
We asked for an interview with Vani Rao, the Indian ambassador to Italy and San Marino. He welcomed us with courtesy and cordiality at the diplomatic headquarters in via XX Settembre in Rome.
India is increasing - and will increasingly increase - its geopolitical role. In particular, India appears to have a multilateral strategy. In the case of a global war, defined and clear positions will have to be chosen. His country has a historic friendly relationship with a Russia that today appears to be a close ally of China. What will happen in the event of a new military confrontation between China and India?
It's a complex question. Let's start with India's geopolitical role. Right now, in the Indo-Pacific and Indian Ocean region, India is a key country, with a major economy in a strategic location.
If we look at India on a map we can see that, with a huge coastline, it is at the confluence of maritime trade routes.
We actually live with a complicated "neighborhood", with open security issues at the borders with at least three countries.
India is seeking peace and stability in the region, leading to economic prosperity that can have a positive impact on neighboring countries. For our economic growth and development, peaceful relations with our neighbors are therefore fundamental.
India, especially in the last decade, is also emerging as a key partner for countries in the Indian Ocean region, South Asia and the broader Indo-Pacific region. We are helping many nations in their security priorities, capacity building and many other programs.
We are also what we call “first responders” in cases of crisis, humanitarian assistance, disasters such as during Covid.
Let's look at our relations with China, which you mentioned. In the past we have been at war and we had made agreements, still valid, to maintain peace and stability on the border. Over the last four years these agreements have been repeatedly violated, creating a difficult situation. We are managing, through diplomatic and military dialogue, the easing of tensions to try to return to the status quo ante.
Land violations postare be you were a form of provocation of China?
Yes, for our part we asked them to return to the situation before the summer of 2020. But we were not able to get what we wanted and they maintained their military presence across the border in India. We are reflexively maintaining ours to safeguard our sovereignty and territorial integrity. A course of action that any country would take if faced with such a threat.
Of course, this has repercussions on political relations and trade, we have taken some measures to put some controls and checks on the type of investments that come in, some Chinese apps have been banned in India, there are, among many, also controls in the telecommunications.
Now let's talk about India's relations with Russia. Since our independence, we have had ties with the former Soviet Union. In the post-independence era, the former Soviet Union assisted India in its space and energy industrialization programs. Part of our industrialization process was possible thanks to the help of the former Soviet Union.
Today, in our civil nuclear program, Russia is a partner.
Defense ties have been a crucial aspect of our relationship with Russia. In the post-independence era in India, the erstwhile Soviet Union was one of the countries - one of the few - willing to sell defense systems to India, willing to transfer technology to enable licensed manufacturing and also provide after-sales support . We have acquired several military platforms and equipment from the former Soviet Union, including MIG or Sukhoi aircraft, vehicles for our artillery, for the Navy, etc.
And tanks! Someone says that in the 90s you "saved" some Russian companies with your orders...
As far as tanks are concerned, it's true. Over the years, the relationship has transformed from that of buyer/seller to one with more facets: we have initiated joint research and co-production plans for some platforms of Russian origin. Aging systems and platforms need ongoing support, maintenance and interaction with the original defense and military establishments.
There are also exercises and other exchanges with Russia.
Let's get to today's relations between Russia and China. We need to understand the context in which their bonds strengthened. In the last four or five years, the initiatives of some countries have limited supplies to Russia which, consequently, has turned to some countries in Asia to obtain them. This aid does not only imply the technological, political and economic aspect but also the risk of becoming a “Proxy State” (subordinate/satellite state, ndd).
We are aware of the dynamics of that relationship and its consequences for Asia and the entire world.
As a "third" country, we do not want to comment on the dynamics or draw conclusions. But we understand the context it happened.
A radical change has also occurred in Pakistan: 20 years ago, it was in close relations with the USA and today it is a vassal country of China... First you spoke of three "difficult" countries on the borders: one is certainly China, the second is historically Pakistan. The third?
With Pakistan we have a history of tensions, infiltrations and conflicts, China is the second and Myanmar (Burma) it's the third. We have a very long geographic border with Myanmar and insurgent movement across the border. We are talking about groups that operate in India and take refuge in Myanmar, who return and cause conflicts.
We must maintain peace across all borders. With Pakistan, our relations have been difficult in the past, and we have taken a very firm position that if they did not stop aiding and abetting cross-border terrorism in India, it would be difficult for us to have normal diplomatic relations.
In India, within the entire political class and also in public opinion, there is consensus and support for this posture towards Pakistan and China.
Plet's talk about your economic growth. A growth initiateda, not now, but decades ago and thanks to far-sighted policies and strategies. The development of the Bangalore area over the last 30 years is a clear example of this.
Since the 90s, following economic reforms, the Indian economy has begun to grow.
Today, India is a nearly $3,9 trillion economy. Last year we recorded growth of over 7%. This year, again, we will maintain growth around 7,7%.
It's a success story. The services sector has driven most of this growth: they account for around 55% of GDP. Bangalore, a center for services trade, and many other cities in India are also examples of this. The agricultural sector represents approximately 18%.
Our focus over the last decade has also been to strengthen industry and manufacturing, because that is where jobs and skills development will be generated. We have invested a lot in infrastructure.
Capital investment is growing and is supported by rising tax collections.
Going forward, India will need to consistently invest in infrastructure and ensure increased agricultural productivity. We must also focus on the green transition: we are aware of the impact of climate change.
We also attach great importance to the presence of women in the workforce.
These are some of our priorities. Given our demographics – young people in India under 25 make up around 50% of the population – the government's most recent budget focused on job creation and training.
We expect the private sector to also increase its investments. It should bring more research and development, with a greater focus on innovation.
The first time I visited India 30 years ago, I remember that if I asked young people what they wanted to become when they grew up, the most frequent answer was "doctor". The last time I went back, twelve years ago, the answer changed to “electrical engineer”!
India is today one of the countries with the largest number of professionals in the technological sectors, including technicians, engineers and computer scientists...
It is true. And the options 10 years ago were fewer. Now there are many new areas in which young people want to specialize: biotechnology, electronics and many other fields. The space sector has seen enormous growth!
Startups and self-employment have increased significantly. There are government programs and loans available for those who want to set up their own industry, especially for women.
The government is encouraging because not all jobs will come from the manufacturing or service sectors. More specialized domains will increase, in which particular skills are indispensable, such as Artificial Intelligence, machine learning, cybersecurity and space. These are fields in which we want to see growth and partnerships with other countries, including Italy.
We have witnessed a change in friendships on a geopolitical level. As we said, Pakistan was once close to the USA... Does India today consider the closeness of the United States strategic for the future?
The United States is and has been one of our closest partners – it is a mutual and multidimensional relationship. There are many stakeholders on both sides who support this relationship and want to see it grow and strengthen. Regardless of who is or has been in power in Washington DC, Republicans or Democrats, they have advocated for bipartisan support with India: The United States is one of our largest trading partners with approximately 200 billion in trade.
Both US investments in India and Indian investments in the United States are growing significantly. Over the last two/three years we have reoriented some of our commercial ties to discuss new issues such as supply chains, critical technologies, space collaboration. It's a very strong relationship, which has a very solid foundation.
We also have a huge Indian-American community that is building bridges between the two countries, with a large number of students in the United States, almost 200.000.
We also have convergences in how we look at the Indo-Pacific within the Quad* framework. The United States, simply put, is a very close partner of India.
Your Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, seems to have a good relationship with our Prime Minister, Giorgia Meloni.
India has made significant efforts in its relations with Europe over the past decade. Our Prime Minister and Foreign Minister have visited many countries because we see Europe as a key partner in trade, technology and also in issues such as migration, energy, mobility and emerging issues such as Artificial Intelligence.
We have a growing Indian diaspora in many countries in Europe and we are happy that many European countries are reciprocating and focusing not only on the Indo Pacific but on India forging broad ties.
We see Italy, within Europe, as a very strong partner for India. There are values of history and culture that bind and bring together ordinary people.
In recent years, Italy's attention, with its Wider Mediterranean, has reached the Indo-Pacific and the Indian Ocean. India represents a stable and reliable democracy in the area. We want to increase and deepen relationships, which today are mainly commercial. There is enormous potential to be developed.
During the institutional visits there was also talk of joint, bilateral military exercises. Let's hope we move from words to deeds.
We both participate in several multinational exercises and India exercises regularly with many countries in the region. It would be useful to develop exchanges of experience or training between the individual armed forces: Navy, Army and Air Force.
In recent years, India has significantly strengthened its military industry and acquired many customers. Armenia is one of the last.
The Defense sector has changed profoundly thanks to the modernization of production. In the last four years, also due to the logistical consequences of the Pandemic, the country has sought independence from foreign systems and related supply chains, favoring local production.
We are investing in technology and innovation, both in the public and private sectors. We seek to form partnerships to become part of the global logistics chain of the Defense market.
Last question: India presents itself as "the largest democracy in the world", however in the ranking di Reporters Without Borders on freedom of the press, in recent decades the position has collapsed and today India finds itself even behind Pakistan. È an issue that worries you?
India is still "the largest democracy in the world": we have independent elections and an independent judiciary.
We have a huge number of newspapers and in various languages! The number of television and radio channels has also increased.
Print media is in decline but social media lends itself to constant and lively debates and comparisons.
The Western media judges India by its own standards. Sometimes the creators of certain rankings should worry about their own results first.
Freedom of the press exists and is developing considerably. Furthermore, our judiciary protects her.
* The Quadrilateral Security Dialogue is an informal strategic alliance between the United States, Japan, India and Australia. Created to promote cooperation on security and strategic issues in the Indo-Pacific region, QUAD focuses on issues such as maritime security, disaster response, economic cooperation and the promotion of a free and open international order. Its activity has intensified in recent years in response to China's growing influence in the region.
Original English transcript of the interview:
India is increasing — and will continue to increase — its geopolitical role. Specifically, India appears to have a multilateral strategy. In the event of a global war, clear and defined positions will need to be taken. Your country has a historic friendship with Russia, which today appears to be a close ally of China. What will happen in the event of a new military confrontation between China and India?
It's a complex question. Let's start with India's geopolitical role. At the moment, in the Indo-Pacific and Indian Ocean region, India is a key country, with an important economy in a strategic position. If we look at India on a map, we can see that, with its vast coastline, it is at the confluence of maritime trade routes. We live in a "complicated neighborhood," with security issues at our borders with at least three countries. India is seeking peace and stability in the region, favoring economic prosperity that can have positive impact on neighboring countries. For our economic growth and development, peaceful relations with our neighbors are therefore fundamental.
India, especially in the last decade, is also emerging as a crucial partner for countries in the Indian Ocean region, South Asia, and the wider Indo-Pacific region. We are helping many nations with their security priorities, capacity development, and various other programs. We are also what we call a "first responder" in times of crisis, humanitarian assistance, and disasters like during Covid.
Let's look at our relations with China, which you mentioned. In the past, we have been at war and had agreements, still valid, to maintain peace and stability at the border. In the last four years, these pacts have been repeatedly violated, creating a difficult situation. We are managing through diplomatic and military dialogue to ease tensions and seek to return to the status quo ante.
The violations may have been a form of provocation by China?
Yes, on our part, we have asked them to return to the pre-summer 2020 situation. But we have not been able to achieve what we wanted, and they have maintained their military presence beyond the border with India. We are consequently maintaining ours to safeguard our sovereignty and territorial integrity - a course of action any country would take if faced with such a threat. Naturally, this has repercussions on political relations and trade; we have taken measures to put some controls and checks on the type of investment coming in, some Chinese apps have been banned in India, and there are checks in the telecommunications sector, among others.
Now let's talk about India's relations with Russia. Since our independence, we have had ties with the former Soviet Union. In the post-independence era, the former Soviet Union assisted India in its industrialization, space and energy programs. Part of our industrialization was possible thanks to the help of the former Soviet Union. Today, Russia is a partner in our civilian nuclear program. Defense ties have been a crucial aspect of our relations with Russia. In post-independence India, the former Soviet Union was one of the countries, one of the few countries, willing to sell defense systems to India, willing to transfer technology to enable licensed production and also provide post-sale support. We have acquired various platforms and military equipment from the former Soviet Union, including MIG, Sukhoi aircraft, artillery systems, naval equipment, etc.
And tanks! Some say that in the 1990s you "saved" some Russian companies with your orders...
It's true (regarding tanks). Over the years, the relationship has evolved from buyer/seller to one with more facets: we have started joint research and co-production plans for some Russian-origin platforms. Systems and platforms that are now outdated need continuous support, maintenance, and interaction with the original defense and military establishments. There are also exercises and other exchanges with Russia.
Let's talk about the current relations between Russia and China. One must understand the context in which their ties have strengthened. In the last four or five years, initiatives by some countries have limited supplies to Russia, which consequently turned to some countries in Asia to obtain them. This help implies not only the technological, political, and economic aspect but also the risk of becoming a "Proxy State" (satellite state, ed.). We are aware of the dynamics of that relationship and its consequences for Asia and the world. As a "third" country, we do not want to comment on the dynamic or draw conclusions. But we understand the context in which it happened.
A radical change has also occurred in Pakistan: 20 years ago, it had close ties with the USA, and today it is a vassal state of China... You earlier mentioned three "difficult" countries at the borders: one is surely China, the second is historically Pakistan. The third?
With Pakistan, we have a history of tensions, infiltrations, and conflicts; China is the second, and Myanmar (Burma) is the third. We have a very long geographical border with Myanmar and movement of insurgents across the border. We are talking about groups that operate in India and take refuge in Myanmar, returning and causing conflicts. We need to maintain peace across all borders. With Pakistan, our relations have been difficult in the past, and we have taken a very firm stance that if they do not cease to help and favor cross-border terrorism in India, it will be difficult for us to have normal diplomatic relations. In India, within the entire political class and also in public opinion, there is consensus and support for this stance towards Pakistan and China.
Let's talk about your economic growth. Growth that began, not now, but decades ago thanks to forward-looking policies and strategies. The development of the Bangalore area in the last 30 years is a clear example.
Starting in the 1990s, following economic reforms, the Indian economy began to grow. Today, India is an economy of nearly $3.9 trillion. Last year we recorded growth of over 7%. This year, again, we will maintain growth around 7.7%. It's a success story. The services sector has driven most of this growth: it represents about 55% of GDP. Bangalore, a hub for the services trade, and many other cities in India are examples of this. The agricultural sector represents about 18%. Our goal in the last decade has also been to strengthen industry and the manufacturing sector because that's where jobs and employment will be generated. We have invested a lot in infrastructure. Capital investments are increasing and are supported by increased tax collections.
Moving forward, India will need to constantly invest in infrastructure and ensure increased agricultural productivity. We also need to focus on the green transition: we are aware of the impact of climate change. We also give great importance to female participation in the workforce. These are some of our priorities. Given our demographics — young people in India under 25 represent about 50% of the population — the most recent government budget focused on job creation and Skill development. We expect the private sector to also increase its investments. It should bring more research and development, with a greater focus on innovation.
The first time I visited India 30 years ago, I remember that if I asked young people what they wanted to become when they grew up, the most frequent answer was "doctor." The last time I returned, twelve years ago, the answer had changed to "electronic engineer!" Today, India is one of the countries with the largest number of professionals in the technological sectors, including technicians, engineers, and IT specialists...
It's true. And the options 10 years ago were fewer. Now there are many new areas in which young people want to specialize: biotechnology, electronics, and many other sectors. The space sector has seen enormous growth! Startups and self-employment have increased significantly. There are government programs and loans available for those who want to create their own industry, especially for women. The government is encouraging this because not all jobs will come from the manufacturing or services sectors. More specialized domains will increase, where specific skills are essential, such as Artificial Intelligence, machine learning, cybersecurity, space. These are fields where we want to see growth and partnerships with other countries, including Italy.
We have witnessed a change in friendships at the geopolitical level. As we said, once it was Pakistan that was close to the USA... Does India today consider the closeness to the United States strategic for the future?
The United States is and has been one of our closest partners: it is a mutual and multidimensional relationship. There are many stakeholders on both sides who support this relationship and want to see it grow and strengthen. Regardless of who is or has been in power in Washington DC, Republicans or Democrats, they have supported India. In the US congress there is bipartisan support for India: the United States is one of our largest trading partners with around US$ 200 billion in trade. US investments in India and Indian investments in the United States are growing significantly. In the last two/three years, we have reoriented some of our trade ties to discuss new issues such as supply chains, critical technologies, space collaboration. It's a very strong relationship, with a very solid foundation. We also have a huge Indian-American community building bridges between the two countries, with a large number of students in the United States, almost 200,000 students. We also have convergences in how we view the Indo-Pacific within the Quad framework*. The United States, in short, is a very close partner of India.
Your prime minister, Narendra Modi, seems to have a good relationship with our prime minister, Giorgia Meloni.
India has significantly engaged in relations with Europe over the last ten years. Our Prime Minister and Foreign Minister have visited many countries because we consider Europe a key partner in trade, technology, and also on issues such as migration, energy, mobility, and emerging issues such as Artificial Intelligence. We have a growing Indian diaspora in many European countries, and we are happy that many European countries are reciprocating and focusing not only on the Indo-Pacific but on India, creating extensive ties. We consider Italy, within Europe, as a very strong partner for India. There are historical and cultural values that bind and bring people closer together. In recent years, Italy's focus, with its Extended Mediterranean, has reached the Indo-Pacific and the Indian Ocean. India represents a stable and reliable democracy in the area. We want to increase and deepen relationships, today mainly commercial. There is enormous potential to be developed.
During official visits, there has also been talk of joint bilateral military exercises. We hope words turn into action.
We both participate in various multinational exercises, and India regularly exercises with many countries in the area. It would be useful to develop exchanges of experiences or training between individual armed forces: Navy, Army, and Air Force.
In recent years, India has significantly strengthened its military industry and acquired many clients. Armenia is one of the latest.
The defense sector has profoundly changed thanks to the modernization of production. In the last four years, also due to the logistical consequences of the Pandemic, the country has sought independence from foreign systems and related supply chains, favoring local production. We are investing in technology and innovation, both in public and private sectors. We are seeking partnerships to become part of the global defense market supply chain.
Last question: India presents itself as "the world's largest democracy," yet in the Reporters Without Borders ranking on press freedom, the position has collapsed in recent decades, and today India is even behind Pakistan. Is this an issue that concerns you?
India is still "the world's largest democracy": we have independent elections and an independent judiciary. We have an enormous number of journalistic outlets in various languages! The number of television and radio channels has also increased. Print media is declining, but social media lends itself to constant and lively debates and discussions. Western media judge India by their own standards. Sometimes the authors of certain rankings should worry about their results first. Press freedom exists and is therefore developing significantly. Our judiciary also protects it.
